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Exclusive: How newly found "destroyed" papers revive the mystery of the notorious gay and paedophile Elm Guest House

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David HenckeLondon
Exclusive: How newly found "destroyed" papers revive the mystery of the notorious gay and paedophile Elm Guest House
Inquest Papers claimed to have been destroyed have emerged 27 years later querying whether Carole Kasir killed herself or was killed re-opening the question of the role of the notorious Elm Street quest house in south wesr London

UPDATE: Since this article was published a fresh source has come forward to my colleague Mark Conrad, who also wrote about Elm Guest House, showing that Carol Kasir was born Carol Ann Jones in the West Riding of Yorkshire on 4 July 1942 and was never born in Germany. She and her family grew up in south London. Carol moved to the USA with her mother when she was a teenager, but did not like the States and soon returned.There is no direct family link to the name Weichmann - Carol's relatives think she made up the name, or adopted it to cover her background, before she married Harry Kasir. Harry would have thought her maiden name was Weichmann as it was declared on her marriage certificate.

Coroner's papers covering the controversial inquest of Carole Kasir, the madam who ran with her husband, the notorious Elm Guest House in Barnes, south London. have been discovered after the police said they had been destroyed.

They revive the whole business of whether the brothel was a haunt for paedophiles as well as consenting gay adults. I have written today with Keir Mudie, the Mirror's deputy political editor, an article about it in the Sunday People and it is also on the Mirror website here.

The verdict by the Hammersmith coroner way back in 1990 was that she committed suicide - and given two suicide notes were found - so it should have been a slam dunk case.

But other people who gave evidence thought she might have been killed because she was alleged to have kept records and photographs of some of the visitors who came there - one of whom the Met police confirmed was Sir Cyril Smith, whom even the biggest naysayers about VIP paedophilia, would have difficulty today making a case that he was innocent.

What is extraordinary is that the Met Police did a recent investigation - Operation Fernbridge- into Elm Guest House and a Richmond Council children's home Grafton Close - that led to the conviction of a Roman Catholic priest Tony McSweeney and the arrest and charging of the deputy manager of the home, John Stingmore on child sexual abuse. Yet they told an MP Tom Watson, now Labour's deputy leader, who raised questions about the case, that all the papers relating to Kasir at the inquest had been destroyed.

That is plainly not the case as these redacted documents show. I understand that more recently the police may have checked back though there is no evidence that they are re-opening the Richmond investigation.

McSweeney was not charged with anything about Elm Guest House only in connection with the children's home and abuse at Stingemore's flat in Bexhill. Stingemore was charged with one count involving Elm Guest House but he died just before the case was due to come to court. So it was never tested in court.

What the documents do show illustrates how difficult it is to investigate historical child sexual abuse and the mass of contradictions -surrounding the story.

They even go down to Carole Kasir's name in the document. The official record gives her name as Weichman and born on 4 July 1942 in Germany. Her marriage certificate I have recently learnt has Weichman as her father and her estranged husband at the time said her name was Weichman. But a close relative who should know said her maiden name was Carole Anne Jones and she was born in London.

The documents also raise questions about her suicide and here even the accounts are contradictory. Her GP, David Walker, who she had been a patient at his practice for 14 years, reveals she did have a history earlier of suicide, was diabetic and had a drink problem. But he concludes that she was NOT the type of person he expected to commit suicide.

The toxicology report from New Cross Hospital confirms she died from hypoglycemia and an overdose of insulin. But the examination did not bother to check the syringes or phials or the contents of her stomach. No alcohol was discovered.

But the most contentious and sensational evidence came from other witnesesses One insisted that he had seen a pile of photographs of prominent people and documents naming which VIPs came there at her home and another claimed she was being pursued by the security services and the police.

One piece of evidence from the inquest does chime with the Metropolitan Police's answer to Channel 4 Dispatches is the involvement of Sir Cyril Smith. The detailed evidence to the inquest included a story that the overweight MP broke her toilet and wouldn't pay for the repair which added a further dispute. between him and her.

The inquest also took evidence from Richmond Council where Mr Jeffries, director of social services, admitted that Stingemore was a paedophile convicted in 1983 -a year after he left Richmond Council.

But Terry Earland, the head of children's services, suspected that boys were being taken to Elm Guest House from Grafton Close earlier under Stingemore's care  This appeared not to be taken up by the then director of social services, Louis Minster who later suddenly resigned from the council.

Now you might say as many naysayers do, why should we be bothered. It is all in the past and we should move on. But I bet none of these people have looked into the eyes of people who have been abused and seen the havoc and destruction they have faced years after the event. They would prefer to just call them fantasists and say none of this probably happened anyway.

That is why we have an independent inquiry at the moment looking into historic child sexual abuse and certainly looking at the evidence it has already dredged out of the sexual abuse of children at Knowl View School in Rochdale by Cyril Smith there was a cover up as well as abuse.

That is why painstakingly we need to get the nearest we can to the truth and pretending document's don't exist is not a way to get there.

#Carole Kasir, #elm guest house, #VIP paedophiles, #richmond council, #hammersmith coroner, #inquest

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David Hencke

9 days ago

No I haven't and don't intend to. btw Peter Jukes never worked for Exaro - only in your fantasy.Very innaccurate of you.
My mention of the Canary isles has led people to tell me of three paedophiles involved in the removal business who moved there to escape justice. With your extensive knowledge of paedos have you come across them ?

Bandini

8 days ago

Hand's up here, you've got me bang to rights on that one - it was a genuine mistake suggesting Jukes had worked for Exaro and I apologise for making that false claim.

I must have become confused as I had thought he'd worked there in the early days but he did not. He is only your friend, a friend who has spoken up on behalf of Exaro's work & who even took The Sunday Telegraph to the 'court of IPSO' to repudiate the claim that Byline "shared a number of journalists with Exaro", he himself claiming that "only one contributor had written for both sites".

Unfortunately IPSO saw things differently and "noted that at least three Byline.com writers, including the complainant, had contributed to Exaro" and that "[i]t was not therefore misleading for the article to report that the site had “promoted and defended” the sex abuse theory, and that it shared a number of journalists with Exaro."

A further contributor - ho ho! - to my confusion may well have been a previous discussion between ourselves when I upbraided you for making the 120% false claim that a BBC DJ had raped a teenager who then took her own life (several decades ago). It was a baseless & false claim, a disgraceful one made up out of thin air in the worst tradition of tabloid muck. As I pointed out at the time your friend - Peter Jukes - had written about the case in a book of his, and 'if only you'd had a word with him before putting your foot in it (again)'.

I mentioned it here on Byline and as I now see that there is some heated activity on social media regarding alleged plagiarism by a Byline journalist I'll mention in passing (as I did previously) that Jukes book as relating to the aforementioned case was a copy 'n' paste of someone else's work and even contained the same misspellings as the pilfered original. I don't believe it was attributed.

On to your supposed paedo removals business I'm afraid I'll have to let you down - no, I have no idea who they might be (should they exist). Is there a good reason why such incredible information has been passed to you, a journo, and not the authorities? Surely such a group would be easy to track down, what with shipping containers & Transit vans and what not, nevermind the massive paper-trail that even the smallest transaction generates in Spain.

Have your incredible sources whittled the operation down to a particular island given that there are at least seven? Would you like me to go a-knockin' on the doors of more than two million people to help you?

Really, I don't think I'm the fellow to help as I assiduously avoid ex-pats in the main & have never knowingly met a paedophile in my life & wouldn't really know what to look for - I'd always imagined them emerging from a funk of poor personal hygiene sporting seedy looking beards, though I know that the devil takes many forms. Zounds, he even hides behind a press badge on occasion!

David Hencke

9 days ago

Still spending hours in your flat fulminating and fantasising about imaginary conversations rather than enjoying the Canary Island sunshine, I see. I am afraid you are going to have to get used to further investigations. I Iove how you use such assertions that Nick lied about being abused by Savile when you haven't the slightest evidence to say that - and there has been a legal process about this. I look forward to your special evidence to get this revoked .- you must have been there when it didn't happen!

Bandini

9 days ago

I see you haven't published my second comment below on your own site, instead preferring to fulminate about the weather again; you seem a little obsessed - winter blues, Hencke?

I have therefore copied the reply you made to my first comment below so that any interested parties can see your repeated failure to provide evidence for your daft claims.

Nick & Savile?

"As 'Stephen' he said presenter Savile liked to see pain inflicted on victims..."

"In a backroom of the Conservative bastion, the Carlton Club, Nick said he was introduced to Edward Heath, prime minister between 1970 and 1974..."

""Nick" also accused former Home Secretary Lord Brittan, former Conservative MP Harvey Proctor, and Jimmy Savile. More recently [ho ho ho!], he said he identified the late Labour peer Lord Janner..."

"He first disclosed his alleged abuse to police in 2012. This was to Wiltshire Police and he did not name prominent men, just his stepfather, who by then was dead. Police could take no action.
He next spoke to the Met's Operation Yewtree to allege abuse by Jimmy Savile..."

Rather than seeking crowd-funded payment for your wordsmithery you might be better off putting it towards an intensive course of psychiatric treatment - despite everything I'd put something in the pot.

In passing I'll note that this platform - Byline - is run by your former Exaro collegue Peter Jukes & that his former boss (and yours) at Exaro - the fruitcake Mark Watts - has also inexplicably found a new home here. Oh, and that as if by magic one of your/Exaro's 'amazing sources' popped up elsewhere the day after your blog, ready to shock us once again:

"The notorious paedophile, Sir Cyril Smith MP, was one of those who abused Kerr in Manchester. In London he was abused at the Philbeach Hotel in Earl’s Court; raped at Dolphin Square; and brought to Elm Guest House (EGH) which was frequented by Cyril Smith, Jimmy Savile and others."

Aye, that's right - big ol' Cyril asked Jimmy to help him fix the busted bog-seat as on account of his enormous flubber-gut he wasn't able; they then jointly utilized Savile's toolkit to sadisticaly abuse 'Nick' before piling into a pink Rolls Royce and nipping over to a lock-up to kill a few kids. They rounded the day off with a brandy at the Carlton Club (while dressed as wizards and speaking Latin backwards).

"davidhencke says:
November 13, 2017 at 11:24 pm
I have put this up for my readers to see the true nature of a naysayer, Bandini from the Canary Islands normally appears on paedophile sympathising sites like those who believe Jimmy Savile is innocent and people whom claim to have been sexually abused are just liars and fantasists. he is not beyond encouraging people accused of abuse to sue anyone either.
he looks for holes in any case and because nobody is perfect ( except him) of course finds them. he spends his life in a rather nice part of the world fulminating against all and sundry rather than enjoying the sunshine. what a sad case!
here just for starters he is wrong about documents normally being destroyed. I am sitting on an independent panel examining another historical issue ( not to do with child abuse) going back to the 1990s and I can assure him the documents I am looking at are all there, especially if they relate to public proceedings. His view on this is pure rubbish.
As for the rest yes the witnesses are not perfect but he misses the whole point of the story, it is examining what the medical people thought ( of course no doubt he believes they are all liars as well) and the toxicology report which had not been released. ( he probably thinks it is a fake)
The Bandini world would be wonderful if true, no child sex abuse
exists and every person accused as innocent as driven snow.
I also note he never comments on the many other issues on the blog – presumably he thinks they are all made up as well – probably thinks the National Audit Office is a just a fantasy body made up by me."

Bandini

11 days ago

Astonishing to see you return to this load of rubbish, Hencke, though interesting to see Mark Watts - your co-conspirator at Exaro - also blathering about the same subject & adopting similar tactics to your own: wilfully spinning the boring facts of the matter in the most sensational way possible. (Records were "destroyed", for example, without mentioning that this is exactly what usually happens to them, etc.)

Let's whiz through this for the benefit of any late-comers who may be suckered into believing this all hasn't been dealt with previously.

1) This claim:

"Stingemore was charged with one count involving Elm Guest House but he died just before the case was due to come to court. So it was never tested in court."

It's a shame that you didn't mention the following:

- while "Stingmore" as your appalling Mirror piece elects to name him - and it's a misspelling you also slip into here - was still alive and with an upcoming court case to look forward to you/Exaro very specifically made plain that NO charge was connected to Elm.

- only once the obviously unwell Stingemore was obviously dead did you claim otherwise.

- you have been challenged to back this up repeatedly but to date have been unable to do so.

So I'll have yet another go: please provide the full details of the "one count involving Elm Guest House", including, specifically the way in WHICH it 'involved' Elm Guest House. Assuming there is/was an alleged victim let's hear about their allegation; their age would also be helpful given your previous form of bamboozling the gullible by neglecting to mention that a 'victim' of 'abuse' at your 'paedo brothel' would have been a prostitute in his twenties.

2) These:

"One SOURCE believes a fresh probe may expose a cover-up and reveal that Mrs Kasir, 47, who was found dead in her bed in 1990, had been murdered."

"The house in Barnes, South West London, was SAID to have been used for child sexual abuse by VIP paedos in the 1980s."

"But other PEOPLE who gave evidence thought she might have been killed..."

"But the most contentious and sensational evidence came from other WITNESSES."

"ONE insisted that he had seen a pile of photographs of prominent people and documents naming which VIPs came there at her home and ANOTHER claimed she was being pursued by the security services and the police."

Etcetera. So many sources! So many witnesses!
Why so reluctant to name them, Hencke? Let me help you!

The sources are the following:

Chris Fay: convicted criminal & compulsive liar.
Clive Godden: deranged stalker & compulsive liar.
Mad Mary Moss: certifiable basket case.

Together they flogged a completely different tale of paedo-nastiness to the 'papers when funding was drying up. It did not involve Elm though unsurpisingly DID involve the same poor bastard they've been using to peddle this filth ever since. Exaro also exploited him. It went nowhere. (Brief resume: paedo videos of children being killed by motorbikes & Rolls Royce-driving toffs drugging & kidnapping "witnesses" from Mad Mary's very own gaff, etc. What a tale!)

A short time afterwards Kasir dies, so spotting the opportunity up they pop again with a "list" and utter bullshit about "photographs in saunas". Is there a good reason why the ruthless powers that be decided to allow Kasir to hang onto these (imaginary) pics long enough to show to the wretched Fay? Unfortunately - though unsurprisingly! - Fay didn't manage to make copies, though how could THEY have known that? Oh, I forgot: the imaginary attempt on his life when an imaginary bullet was blasted into his very-real hovel!

You state that "[t]hat is why painstakingly we need to get the nearest we can to the truth..."

But every word you've written regarding your 'paedo brothel' fantasy has managed to do the exact opposite!

I suggest you assemble Fay, Godden & one or more of Moss' many fluctuating identities - together with a real journalist - and set the camera rolling; five minutes is all it would take (including four minutes for adjusting sound-levels, etc.).

P.S. Your offensive offensive against the English language continues apace ("Fresh coroner's papers", etc.) but special mention for Kasir's "history earlier of suicide" - what a corker! Well done!

Bandini

10 days ago

[Hencke has responded on his own site without actually managing to substantiate one word of his bogus article, preferring instead to divert attention by seeking to drag Jimmy Savile into it; I copy below my own reply:

What a lot of hot air, Hencke!
I'll have to put words into your mouth to answer the questions posed:

1) "No, unfortunately I am unable to provide ANY information to back up my assertion (which was flatly contradicted by ourselves, the Exaro Goons, until Sting(e)more conveniently died).
The source for the claim is the same disreputable organziation which presented it to the world as fact in the first place. It is a single-source claim and there is no reason on earth for anyone to believe a damned word of it."

2) "Yes, that's right. Although I scrabbled to put a bit of space between the Fay fantasists and myself by claiming that the cracking source who originally piqued my interest was a fed-up neighbour who remembered that 35 years previously it had been difficult finding a parking space due to the steady stream of Rolls Royces ferrying VIPs to Elm Guest House this was obviously laughable rot - particularly so as it was I who was responsible for the dreadful Zac Goldsmith MP presenting Fay's sauna-photograph inanity to the assembled members of Parliament! And although I've been disseminating this noncesense for bleeding years I've still not come up with anything of substance, leaving me once again to spin another tabloid-tale based on the Fay, Godden & Moss drivel."

Regarding Savile who you seek to involve in an attention-diverting manner the world STILL waits with bated breath for your stonker about the Ted Heath & Savile sex-parties that never occurred but that the dopey nephew of Savile was persuaded to pretend did (necessitating a complete rewrite of everything he'd said up to this point). Seems to have disappeared into the ether...

And lest we forget Exaro's multi-purpose 'Nick' - the Swiss Army-accuser! - who also lied about having been a victim of Jimmy Savile (and others). With the 'thousands' of victims supposedly out there it's certainly odd that you the ones you alighted on were bullshit artists, eh?

Regarding your assertion about documents being destroyed I see you have extrapolated your personal experience of finding records intact & formed an imaginary Rule that they therefore must always be preserved; this is simply untrue.

"Some modern coroners’ records do not survive very well as many have been sampled, or completely destroyed. Where they do survive, modern inquest records are closed for 75 years. Records over 15 years old could be destroyed or sampled by the coroner, but this was discretionary, and a coroner might choose not to destroy any records at all."

Indeed. Your daft articles failed to note that only the family would normally have had access to the Coroner's Report (if it had survived) and disingenuously ramp-up the conspiracy angle with this:

"The Kasir files were released to ­campaigners under freedom of ­information rules after London’s Met Police said they had been destroyed."

Why on earth would anyone wanting information on the Coroner's Report ask an unconnected organization (Met Police) in the first place? Why not seek the answer from the bleeding Coroner's Office?!? Too much like common sense, or maybe you're just too bone idle to do the leg-work yourself. Why stop at the Coroner?

"Hello, is that the Met Police?"
"[anguished sigh as copper recognises the rustle of beard against mouthpiece] Aaaaahh, yes it is. And is that ace reporter, David Hencke... again?"
"Yes, that's right - Political Journalist of the Year 2012! I'd like to know if you have the dental records of that woman who died over a quarter of a century ago as the imaginary photographs our sources dreamt up may have been stuffed inside a cavity inside her poorly-maintained gob!"
"[copper thinking quickly, desperate to get rid of the nuisance caller so as to get on with some real work] Er, 'fraid not. [ironic tone] Yeah, we dawn-raided the surgery but it's a fried chicken outlet now and there was nothing to be found."
"[vibrating with joy] Aha! So they've been destroyed!"
"Well..."
"[interrupting] Chickens, you say... have the bones been carbon-dated?"
"[sound of 'phone smashing against wall]"

That's enough of that. Thanks for your concern regarding my welfare but it's totally unnecessary and I've been having a great time swimming and a-snorkeling - three angel sharks & a butterfly ray in last couple of weeks! - and some of the "many other issues" on which I've recently commented here include water-quality (enterococci levels, not entirely unrelated to preceeding), political corruption (local), corruption (local/national), planning issues, road safety, etc., etc.. All resolutely paedo-free, Hencke! Funny, eh?

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